Power to the People
The upcoming election has refocused the public’s attention on the issue of change

Demands for political reform are nothing new. The Political Reform Commission, headed by the late Professor Ron Crocombe, formulated a number of logical, and much-needed, suggestions some 12 years ago. The upcoming election has refocused the public’s attention on the issue of change, meaning the reformers – and their detractors – are back in the headlines.
Two groups in particular – Mou Piri and the Group for Political Change (GPC) – are spearheading the call for political reform and have outlined their suggestions in a six-question referendum they’re advocating to be included in the voting process. One of those questions – Should there be a reduction in the number of MPs? – is attracting intense heat, mainly from those who might lose their jobs should that suggestion be implemented.
Atiu MP Norman George has been particularly vocal in his opposition to the proposals put forth by Mou Piri and GPC, to the point of refusing to attend the People’s Forum for Change, the first of which is being held tonight (Wednesday).
Turama sat down with the proponents to discuss their policies, their vision of the future should change not come about, and why they think George is being so obstinate.

Teina Mackenzie
Mou Piri
Q: What’s the history behind Mou Piri?
A: Mou Piri was formed about 10 months ago. It became about quite organically, out of a meeting for the Economic Review Committee. One of the points that was put up was that we are stagnating in economic development because of the system of government. We got together and found that a petition was the way to get the views of the people. We also found that the politicians weren’t listening and that’s why there were more and more people who were getting frustrated with them and the system.
The petition is still out there. We requested four items: reduction of MPs, introduction of national seats, the prime minister to be elected by the majority of the people, and an electoral commission permanently set up.
Q: Why do we need political reform?
A: The reality is that the country isn’t being run smoothly and perfectly. It’s come out that the benefits are only to the current MPs. The people are benefiting less and less in terms of the economy. We have less opportunity for children. It’s brought me right back to the initial point that started all this: what do I do as a mother of a large family? Do I start saving as hard as I can to leave? Take my children somewhere else where they can get possibly a better education and a better chance of having a career that can sustain their own families. Or do I make some sort of effort to change the system here so that we can stay and still enjoy our islands?
Q: How do you force the politicians to make the changes you’re suggesting?
A: You can’t force anyone to do anything, but you can certainly show them that the majority of the people want this. With reform, it’s always been about letting the people know what the solutions are and giving them a lot more information so they can make the informed choices on their own. Little by little, they go to their MPs and start asking questions and saying, Isn’t this better for us? You chip away at it and you keep moving towards the best system that you possibly can have.
Q: There are six questions on the referendum. What’s the future for the country if none of those reforms are implemented?
A: You’re speaking to an optimist, so I don’t put my mind to things like that. I see that at least three out of six will happen.
Q: Norman George has been very vocal in his opposition to political reform. Why do you think he is so against something that appears to be logical and that a lot of people want?
A: I’m not precisely sure if he’s against all political reform – it seems to come out in the media like that. He’s got an opinion; we all do. What we do is garner his opinion, and we garner all the rest of the opinions and we put them together and we go with what the majority wants.
Q: Does he represent the way the old-boys’-club version of government did things and that’s the part that needs to be changed?
A: When you ask me that question, I just think of a comment that was made when the question of reform came up a few months back and there was some comments like, Don’t put the young people in there. And yet the same people saying that were young people themselves many years ago and Norman George was one of them. And he’s still there. Opinions and views change over the years, based on what you learn and what you know. Norman is a politician and I’ve heard a lot of positive things about Norman.
Q: Is Mou Piri joining forces with the Group for Political Change to be one unified voice for political reform?
A: One of our main goals was a reduction in the number of MPs and it was a goal of the GPC when it was pushing for political reform well before us. We are combining on that particular point. Mou Piri has always wanted more people to support reform. We’re very happy that that GPC is back and we are going to unite to push for the reduction of MPs.
Q: What is the feeling on the street? Are people in favour of political reform?
A: Absolutely. That’s the only reason we’ve come this far. I honestly didn’t know at the beginning that supporting these solutions would actually eventuate in something like this, but I’m happy it has because it’s a necessity.
Q: Is change coming?
A: Change is here. We just need to get the people who are making the decisions to embrace it.

Tere Carr
Group for Political Change
Q: What’s the history of the GPC?
A: The GPC was formed back in 2002. It rose as a need for raising public awareness after the Political Reform Commission put its report together in 1998. There were many, many issues in that report that needed to be addressed and some of them needed to be addressed at grassroots level. And so the GPC formed to raise awareness on political reform. We wanted to ensure that the wishes of the people were heard and government would address those issues.
Q: The GPC formed eight years ago. Have you seen any of the changes you wanted to be implemented actually come to fruition in that time?
A: Yes, we have. After addressing these issues and raising awareness, we realized that the public wanted us to push further and to have government actually address issues they were concerned about. At that time, there was concern about the superannuation scheme, which was considered to be unsustainable by the public. They were concerned about the overseas seat, that Cook Islanders who had chosen to reside in New Zealand were having a say in what happens back home. People at that stage felt that was unfair, that if they had chosen to leave our country, they shouldn’t be represented here. We saw those two issues addressed. We had a petition signed by the public and we presented that to parliament and they were able to address both those issues.
People were also concerned about the five years of parliament. We wanted to see that reduced from five to three and the politicians voted on that and compromised on four.
Q: You have actually proven that the will of the people can force government to make changes. By presenting the questions on the referendum, are you hoping to see even more changes?
A: That’s correct. What the Group for Political Change showed was that, where the politicians did not have the will to address political reform issues, the people had the power to force them to make the changes that they wanted to see happen. That’s the same word we want to get back out there to people: that the power is with them. Unless there’s a mandate from the public, then the politicians won’t act.
Q: How crucial is it to the future of this country that there be political reform, that changes are made? Can we go another four years without any changes?
A: I don’t believe we can. I believe that the issues we’ve been talking about have been around for a long, long time. They’ve just been more magnified now, in terms of reducing the number of MPs, by the fact that we have a huge population decline. We have an inequality of voters. The Outer Islands hold 60 per cent of the seats in parliament and yet they represent 30 per cent of the population. Is that fair to the voting public on Rarotonga? It’s addressing issues like that where we need to get down to the grassroots level to explain.
Q: We’re seeing veteran MP Norman George being very vocal in his opposition to political reform. Why are people against something that seems logical and beneficial to the country?
A: I think, with Norman, he expresses what a lot of people at the grassroots level believe. He is from the island of Atiu, where there are two seats, and I think he is in a situation where you only need a small number of people to vote for you to get into parliament. And so you are able to provide the lamb chops and the sausages and the Steinlager that they want before an election, and that gets you into parliament. That just addresses where people are, basically. There are people out there who behave like that. At the end of the day, what we get is what people vote for.
Q: What are you hearing on the street as far as support for political reform?
A: I am hearing that the MP numbers is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed, and it needs to be addressed this time around.
Q: Are you optimistic political reform is coming?
A: I have to be. We want to see this country do better for its indigenous people than what we’ve seen so far. There are people who say, ‘Why waste your time, the same guys get in, the same thing happens?’ If we are all going to sit around and let that happen, by the time we know it, it will be the last person out, switch the light off.

Lynnsay Francis
Group for Political Change
Q: Why do people like Norman George appear to be so dead-set against political reform?
A: I think, actually, it’s a lack of understanding. I think Norman George, being the politician that he is, is using his current strategy on attacking reformists and political reform and referendums just as a political tactic. He refers to changing the constitution and reining the Queen’s Representative in, but he hasn’t actually come up with a solution on how that can be done. Our strategy has always been to raise awareness based on the issues and consultation with the public through the media.
Q: Is it up to the public now to institute the required changes by being smarter on voting day?
A: Yes, the voters actually have to make the decision and they need more information on what the most important issues are.
Q: What is the GPC doing to ensure the public is being listened to?
A: Our new strategy is to go back to the candidates who are actually standing and keep them informed about what the issues are. One of the ways of doing this is having an open people’s forum (dubbed the People’s Forum for Change). Because, once the candidate is elected, he represents the whole of his constituency. This forum is an opportunity for the candidates to come and have an open discussion on what their views are on political reform. To hear what the public’s concerns are. And we can actually see, up front, what our future leaders are going to do. We hope that this is another way in which we can hold our politicians to account to the people, and to hear what people want. We’ll see how this first forum goes and them maybe continue in for the next four or five weeks.
Q: Are you optimistic that we will see some political reform?
A: When we were formed in 2002, we were very optimistic, but it required a lot of hard work. We feel that now is the time for real change. We believe that the career politicians should step aside – graciously – and allow the new generation of Cook Islanders to take a leadership role and lead us into the next century.

Tata Crocombe
Chairman
Economic Development Task Force
Q: How did you become involved in the area of political reform?
A: The Prime Minister asked Iaveta Short and I to look at all of the different contributions, mainly the ones of the Political Reform Commission 12 years ago, update it, and provide a series of options going forward.
Q: Are you pleased with the current attention being paid to political reform?
A: I’m pleased with the fact that it’s being discussed. I’m not pleased with the fact that nothing is actually happening.
Q: But at least people are talking it about it now.
A: Well, it’s a first step.
Q: What are your thoughts on the candidates’ forums that are being organized?
A: I think it’s positive. Democracy is about one’s representatives actually sharing their points of view and visions for the future. Our parliamentarians seem to have taken the approach that they will just remain silent and hope that this will all blow over. That’s not really satisfactory.
Q: Are you happy to see the different groups working together? Is that unified approach a positive step?
A: We’re finally talking some more. The time is for action now. I think it’s time for the people to be given the opportunity to indicate the way forward.
Q: Are you feeling optimistic about change, going into the election, especially with the referendum on the table as well?
A: I think, with this referendum, it will be a turning point for the Cook Islands.
Q: Why are politicians like Norman George so against political reform?
A: I think change is always frightening for people, generally. Particularly people who have worked and lived and prospered in a particular system for such a long time. But without change, there is no progress. We need to look and see if this is the best way forward. It may be that people say, We’ve looked at all the options, we’ve had the discussions, we’ve listened to the debate, and we want to just leave everything the way it is. But there is still a process that needs to be gone through and if we arrive at that point, then so be it.
Q: Do we need this political reform? If people say they’re not interested in it, is that going to hurt the country’s future?
A: All of us have our own point of view, and my point of view is the Cook Islands will continue to see Cook Islanders leave their own country unless the government is changed to a format that meets the needs of the people and can deliver. We’re one of the fastest depopulating self-governing countries in the world. It’s amazing. And nobody seems particularly worried about it. There is only one body that can change that depopulation trend and that is the government. It’s failed for 45 years so it’s time to look at it and say, is there a better way of doing this? It’s a major failure of an elected government to do the job it was elected to do.
Q: Is the whole idea of political reform to give the power back to the people?
A: Absolutely. The politicians, under the current system . . . they’re not doing the work that we’re paying them to do. They’re not doing the work that we’re paying them to do. This new system would get them focused back on the job they’re supposed to be doing, which is upgrading the country.
Q: Is there is a groundswell of people interested in political reform?
A: The common theme is the overwhelming need for political change, but our politicians have and will continue to resist it to the very end. And that’s sad, that’s terribly sad, because they’re our leaders.
Q: Is it time for new politicians?
A: It’s time for a new system. It’s the system that’s giving us the wrong results, rather than individuals. My knowledge of most people in politics is that they’re well-meaning, they want to do what’s best for the country, and they’re honest, decent folk. The problem is the system forces them to get into all this political horse-trading that are short-term things rather than about the long-term welfare of the country. We need to change that.
Q: Change the system, change the future?
A: I believe so. You have to change the political system. If Cook Islanders have no control over the political system, and it’s all controlled by a small group of fairly well-established, older, male politicians, then we face a very sad future.

By John Ireland

Herald Issue 463 10 June
- World famous activist assisting residents
- Budget will decide if residents prosecute Government over landfill
- Forestry project sucking Mangaia dry
- Budget 2010 – fiasco or disaster?